Live Like It's True {Bible Podcast}

The Truth About Your Hustle, When God Offers Rest {Lindsay Schott}

• Shannon Popkin • Season 4 • Episode 34

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Are you a perfectionist? Do you run yourself ragged with your work, or your ministry? And have you asked yourself why? 

Now, I've often asked, "Why am I so tired?" But I think a better question is: "Why am I driving myself to exhaustion?" 

I have to admit, this was the episode in this series I was secretly least excited about. Not because of my guest; Lindsay Schott is one that I was most excited to have return. But this idea of rest, and giving up a day of work? That doesn't really light my fire.

But after having the conversation, I realized it was the one I most needed. I think you're going to find answers that you didn't even realize you were looking for—partly because you don't even realize how much the world is demanding hustle. It's everywhere! This idea that you have to max out your potential and use your opportunities. You have to push yourself and work. Yet what is God saying about our hustle? 

Guest: Lindsay Schott

Bible Passage: Genesis 2:1-3

Get your Freebie: The Live Like It's True Workbook

Mentioned Resources: 

Music: Cade Popkin Music

Recommended Resources:  Go to the extended shownotes for my recommended books, podcast episodes and more, which correlate with our conversations about Genesis 1-3 here in season 4. 

Lindsay Schott is a watercolorist, Bible teacher, and co-creator of the Women's Teaching Program at Stonegate Church. She has a passion for women to be equipped to know the scripture and teach it effectively to others. Lindsay's also the co-author of Trying: Reflections on Faith Through Infertility, Miscarriage, and Loss. 

 She had her husband, Landon, live in the Dallas area with their four children, Hannah, Ruby, Piper and Ben. You can see Lindsay's watercolor work at lschottartistry.com and see her creative journey on Instagram.

Find Lindsay

For the full set of shownotes, including recom

Visit ComparisonGirl.com and get the answers both she and you need in my new book, Comparison Girl for Teens: Thriving Beyond Measure in a World That Compares. Conversation starters, quizzes and more. 

Visit www.shannonpopkin.com/promises/ to learn more about my six-week Bible study with Our Daily Bread, titled, "Shaped by God's Promises: Lessons from Sarah on Fear and Faith." Learn how you too can be shaped by the promises of our faithful God. 

Get your free False Narrative Watchlist. 

Learn more at ShannonPopkin.com.

Shannon Popkin:

Hey, are you a perfectionist? Do you run yourself ragged with your work or your family or your ministry, and have you stopped to ask yourself why? I have to admit, this episode was the one in the series that I was secretly least excited about. Not because of my guest Lindsay Schott is one of the ones I was most excited to talk with but this idea of rest and giving up a day of work. That doesn't really light my fire. Now, after having the conversation, I realized it was the one I most needed, and if you struggle with perfectionism and running yourself ragged, I think you're gonna find answers that you didn't even realize you were looking for, Partly because you don't even realize how much the world is demanding hustle. It's everywhere. This idea that you have to max out your potential and use your opportunities, that you have to push yourself and work harder. Here's the thing. God isn't the one saying those things. So I'm delighted to have Lindsay Schott return and talk with us about the creator who invites you to rest, not hustle. You'll remember that Lindsay was with us in season two to talk about the true story of the arrest. It was one of my favorite episodes and I highly recommend listening to it if you haven't yet, Lindsay is a Bible teacher. She's the co-creator of the Women's Teaching Program at Stonegate Church, which I got to be part of this year, and Lindsay has a passion for women to be equipped to know the scripture and teach it effectively to others. Also, make sure you check out Lindsay's watercolor work. It's absolutely beautiful and I love that she is learning to work not toil, but work rightly as she shares her gift of art with us. So let's jump into this conversation with Lindsay and see what we have to learn about. Rest, Lindsay Schott, welcome back. It's so great to have you. Thank you so much for having me, Shannon. I'm so excited. We had such a great conversation last time about Jesus and the true story of his arrest, and it was seriously one of my favorite conversations in our Easter series Last Spring, so it is great to have you back. Thank you for coming back with me. Thanks for having me. I love this.

Shannon Popkin:

So I wanted to start by telling you about a time that you've got little ones right. You've got a two-year-old right, yeah. So when I had a two-year-old and a newborn baby, my husband was working out of town and his company had rented this furnished apartment for us and it was super nice but not perfect. It wasn't like home. And so, to make things work, I set up a pack and play in the bathroom for the newborn, because I didn't want him waking up my toddler, so it just worked. It was kind of a big bathroom, so that's where he slept.

Shannon Popkin:

His room was the bathroom, and so then I remember seeing my two-year-old Day after day. She'd watch me put the baby to bed in the bathroom and then I see her with her little doll one time saying time for bed, fleety. And then she lays him down next to the bathtub. Plus her heart. She just assumed that baby slept in the bathroom because she's modeling after what she had seen. So I just wonder is there anything, Lindsay, that you see your kids doing and you're like, oh yeah, they've seen me do that. Have you ever?

Lindsay Schott:

anything like this yeah, this one's so funny. So we've got four and my oldest is nine and my youngest is two, and so they have seen me be pregnant and they've seen me have a newborn and they see all these things, and so one of the funniest things is when you see them stuff animals under their shirt or something. And then they walk around like I'm going to have a baby and they know it comes out somehow, but they don't know. Yeah, exactly, I've seen my girls try to nurse their babies which is also super comical when they've been around that earling glow.

Lindsay Schott:

This is their life. This is what they see, that's always funny, so you just watch them do that and there's always a hilarious check, because my first two are very close together, they're 15 months apart and so if they are disciplining their own animals or babies, they know no, pow, pow. They say, oh, pow, pow, pow.

Shannon Popkin:

You're a little bit like oh, pow, pow, pow, yep, that's what they see. All of it happening, yeah, so well, in our passage today, we're going to watch God model something for his children, and it's something that he doesn't need it's rest. He's going to model rest. So, in this true story of the beginning series, we're looking especially at the way that the origin story it gives us context for all of the components of life. The origin story in Genesis informs our story yet today, and rest is part of our daily life, and so we need to understand what is happening here in Genesis 2. And so, lindsay, would you be willing to just go ahead and read just a couple of verses? We're going to do Genesis 2, 1 through 3? And you're going to be reading from the NASB translation, right?

Lindsay Schott:

I am, yes, ma'am. So as the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts, by the seventh day, god completed his work which he had done and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it he rested from all his work which God had created and made OK.

Shannon Popkin:

So this is the seventh day God has. We've just seen days 1 through 6 in Genesis 1, this beautiful poetic creation story, and now we're looking at day 7. And on this seventh day God has done working. And now I'm in this teaching program this year that your church hosts and you're one of the directors and leaders, so you're kind of my teacher, and so one of our Bible study methods is repeated words, and I think you and I both noticed look at all the ways that this phrase is repeated. God completed his work, which he had done. He rested on the seventh day from his work, which he had done.

Shannon Popkin:

God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it because he rested from all his work. So God's work is what is being emphasized here, and God's work is done. What do you see there? What do you notice? What's interesting?

Lindsay Schott:

Yeah, what's interesting to me is, in just three verses you have it said, I think, six times, six times God's work, that he completed, which he did. This was his work. He's the one working, and so even all of Genesis one really, I mean, he's the only one doing something, he's the only personal character until he makes man, and it's like, god is the one that worked and therefore God rested, although we know from other things in scripture he doesn't need rest. But it is the work of God that's exalted and it's the work of God that's emphasized, and it's not any work of Adam or Eve. They came into being after God's labor, and so it sets up Our understanding, for rest begins not with our work but God's work. So good.

Shannon Popkin:

So what do you think? What are we supposed to see about our work, from God's work and his modeling resting?

Lindsay Schott:

One of the things that's really interesting to me is that Genesis is. It's the beginning of the Bible, but it's also the beginning of everything. Like you call this an origin story, the origin of most things are all here in Genesis, and so here we see the beginning of rest, and if we are looking at In the beginning, god did the things that were super important. He set up our reality as we know it, that God himself made rest a part of our reality. And so if God doesn't need rest in the same way that you and I need a nap or things like that, because he's infinite and he doesn't get exerted, then he does rest because he's modeling something.

Lindsay Schott:

And if I want my kids to really know how to do something like if I want to teach them something important like how to use a knife or scissors, something that is really important, I don't just say to them here's how to do this thing, I do it with them, I do it for them, we do it together, and then they step into doing it themselves, and so the fact that God it says it sanctified it. So this day is made holy, not just because God said it was holy, but because God did it, and then in him doing it, it makes it holy, and so he modeled what was important. He didn't just say it, which he'll say it later, but he actually did it, and so it matters because God did it first.

Shannon Popkin:

Yes, I love that that he's actively choosing rest as a father for his children. He is modeling what matters for us and he created our bodies and he could have created us where we downloaded our energy from the sun, put solar panels on our head or whatever he could have, but God created our bodies to need rest on a regular basis. This is a huge part of our life Rest, whether we recognize it or not. I mean, maybe you haven't thought much lately about oh yeah, I need sleep and sleep is a huge, and the older I get, lindsay, the more my sleep is affected. And I need the right pillow, I need the right setting, I have to have a sound machine, I have to have everything.

Shannon Popkin:

I stopped eating in the evenings because that was interrupting my rest. Like, rest is important and a lot of things affect our rest. So I think it's really fitting that God makes I mean, he spends one of his seven days, one of the seven days of creation, on rest. I want to come back to your thoughts on it being sanctified, but first, did you notice that in the first six days, at the end of each day it says and then there was evening and morning, the first day, the second day, and then that's missing here.

Lindsay Schott:

Every task has an end and a beginning. In one through six, this was started and this was completed, and the statements about completion for this on day seven just have to do with the work that was already done. The creation work that God was going to be done was done, and now he enters into enjoyable rest with everything that he created.

Shannon Popkin:

Right and, like we just said, it's God's work that's being emphasized here, God's work is done. Our work is not done right, but this is setting up a pattern. God is setting up a pattern where God worked for six days and then God is resting. And then there are those verses in Hebrews 4, 9 through 11 that say so there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.

Shannon Popkin:

Let us therefore strive to enter that rest. Ooh, I mean, there's a lot in those verses. We won't have a chance to unpack them, but Whole volumes.

Lindsay Schott:

I know exactly. It's amazing.

Shannon Popkin:

But I think that something's being modeled here, and what would that be?

Lindsay Schott:

Lindsay, what's amazing to me is right here, in the very beginning, before you have sin even come into the picture, god rests, modeling that for humans. There's a rest with God. That's fundamental to our humanity and fundamental to his nature is God, because if God isn't the one who needs rest and so he did rest for us it shows what kind of leader he is. What kind of God is God? God is the kind of God who would work and make something beautiful. And then he doesn't now command Adam and Eve. He does command him to work, but he doesn't work them to death. He doesn't say now, expend yourself and work continuously to make this work. He's like I will do all the work, and why don't we rest and enjoy it? I mean, it is as if he makes this incredible meal and he's like I just want you to eat it, I just want you to enjoy it. I had so much fun making it. This is all who he is and part of our nature, with him as his creatures, before sin even enters the picture. God will deliver and we are invited into rest as a gift because he's such a good authority, he's so kind and benevolent, and it's like let me show you what rest is, and that is actually one of the things that I think gets ruined in the fall is now the work that we are commanded by God to do, because work was still part of a sinless existence. But now our work becomes toil, now work becomes fruitless, now work becomes I'm going to work really hard, I'm just going to get thorns back at me. And so now even rest gets marred by the presence of sin and that we don't get to enjoy rest with God. And now we are toiling for everything that we're doing. But you see God, here and now. There's a pattern through the whole scripture of God's work and then him inviting humans into his rest. And it happens a bunch. This is the first place it happens, but it happens here. It happens when God liberates Israel out of Exodus. Israel didn't leave Egypt because they led a great military victory. Yeah, no, god liberated them and they were invited to come out. And when the promised land is created, god even says more than once he's like this is a land that you did not plow it, you did not build the buildings, you did not make the cisterns, but I'm giving you this land as a completed land. And then, of course, you see it. You see it also in David. David's like Lord, I want to build you a house, and God's like how would I build you an eternal kingdom? You just sort of lends up the whole thing and ultimately you see it with Jesus, what you just wrote in Hebrews.

Lindsay Schott:

God is always pointing to this work that he's doing in redemption. What is this land like? I am going to do the work and I'm going to invite you into my rest as a gift and your job is to receive it and enter it. And the fullest expression is Jesus. I mean, he embodies it and lives it. He labors in the way that we cannot labor before God because we can't earn anything before God because of our sin. And Jesus, his just, magnificent and beautiful, obedient life, labors in front of God, earns this merit. And then the invitation is come and rest from your dead works that are never going to earn you anything in this life or the next, and enter, rest, rest with God and enjoy it. And that's one of the things that Jesus purchases and redeems, because rest gets marred in the fall and we start toiling for God's approval, for people's approval, and we start looking for our identity and the things that we're doing here, and it can never be that for us.

Shannon Popkin:

And.

Lindsay Schott:

God, and he's liberating us from all that.

Shannon Popkin:

That's so good. You know, jesus did work himself to death. You know, literally worked himself to death. And then he said it is finished and he invites us to rest in him, because that's the gospel story. The whole Bible is built around this story of Jesus doing the work that we cannot do.

Shannon Popkin:

Yeah, and so all the things that you just said are so compelling, and I feel like there are two ways to respond. And one is that work was part of God's good intention for us. So in that I am, I am invited to work, and my work is not. I shouldn't feel bad about this, because I kind of do Lindsay tend to be a workaholic. I do love my work. I just can't wait to get back to it. My husband and I recently went on a vacation. We had a seven day vacation planned and we we had to cancel it because of we both got sick with COVID, and so then we went and we were like, well, we still have a reservation in Costa Rica for a 25th anniversary, we'll see if we ever get there. But we decided, well, we'll just take a long weekend and go to Florida. And it was like three or four days, and on the fourth day we were like we're, we're kind of ready to go get back to work.

Shannon Popkin:

I don't think we're seven day vacation type people. We're just we, you know we're like we've enjoyed our time, just laying around but yeah, we're kind of ready.

Shannon Popkin:

So I love my work and I love it that that is part of God's good intention. That the work that God invites me to is not is not a curse, but I take it too far. I want to work and it's time to quit. Even last night, ken got home. Now we are in this empty nest phase and Ken got home from work at about 7 30 last night and I was still working and I told him oh man, I just have a few more things to finish. I went up. We had chips and cheese for dinner, like what you know nice right.

Shannon Popkin:

That's a real dinner because it was quick and I could just throw it in the microwave and we said we stood at the bar and ate that together and I'm like I just got to go get a few more things done and then I worked until 9 30. You know what that is. And here I am getting ready for this podcast today on rest. Like, oh, my goodness, I perfect conversation so much, but I love that you, that you talked about how, what kind of a leader God is. You know that God is not the type of leader who works us to death. Me working till 9 30 every night and not getting rest and not eating healthy Like that's not, that's not me. Yeah, following my God.

Lindsay Schott:

Yeah.

Shannon Popkin:

Talk to us more about that. What is this being modeled here? What kind of leader do we have?

Lindsay Schott:

Well, it's amazing that God, when he sets this up for God, a complete picture of a healthy human being working under his leadership, is a human being who works and who rests. So for God to see, to reflect his nature and to be doing it right, whatever that looks like is to work and to rest, and so that's that's the perfect picture that you have both, and that demonstrates something about God that he's such a good leader that he would tell us I want you to rest. And, by contrast, right if, even just looking at the original audience, if the original audience of Genesis is Israelites who are in the wilderness, who had been liberated from Pharaoh and this is supposed to get them familiar with the God that they're saying they're going to follow and who he is and what he's commended for them. They had another taskmaster, and it was Pharaoh, and he worked them to death. They were literally a race of people who only existed to work, and they worked to death and then to be given a leader like God who says I would really like you for one whole day, to stop working. To articulate two things. One I don't, my kingdom isn't built on the backs of slaves. That's not how I build a kingdom, and for them to know our provision comes from God, who's good, and not because we can work really hard. That's the kind of leader God is. That God is telling them and telling us. I am so good that I labor on your behalf and I want you to rest. You see that so beautifully in Jesus. You cannot make your own salvation. My own arm will bring salvation and I will invite you into rest. So for God, a complete picture is work and rest and it shows his benevolence. He could, he's, he's worthy enough, he's powerful enough to demand that we work ourselves to death. He doesn't. He doesn't at all. In fact, he models and commands rest. Instead, we do it with our kids, my kids.

Lindsay Schott:

Christmas Eve, almost impossible to go to sleep. I can't tell you. This has happened several times where one of them is so excited and now we're pushing the 1030 mark and my kids are still young and twice they have just started crying and I don't know why they're crying. They don't know why they're crying. All I say is I'm like you need to sleep, so bad that your brain and your body is breaking down and you've got to sleep now and that is an expression of God's kindness. You have to rest. I will not work you to death. Any good, he doesn't.

Shannon Popkin:

That's so good. I love when I am able to spend time on a beautiful meal and work really hard at creating this really great food and creating ambience. I love to set the table and like handles and I love creating an environment for friends to come and join. But I am not the type to get up from that table and clear the dishes and get working and cleaning up my kitchen. I always leave it for the next morning. I just do. I don't want to get back to work, I want to rest and I think you're giving me permission here.

Lindsay Schott:

Lindsay Like this is a beautiful design right, yes, and I thank God for those dirty dishes and be like we can get those to Mara Listen, joy, yes exactly, and I think that we have.

Shannon Popkin:

there's a continuum. I think we look at this day. You keep calling it a gift. God has given it to us as a gift. God doesn't need rest. He's giving it to us as a gift. And I think we can. There are two ways we look at this gift. We either look at it like we're super. We maybe overemphasize the Sabbath, and that's what we see the Pharisees doing in the New Testament. They've turned it into this like you can't even lean down and help your animal that has fallen into a pit, like that would be work. I think I heard somewhere that in Israel today a Jew cannot push the buttons on the elevator, so they have to have an attendee because that would be work. So I mean, that's almost, that's burdensome. And I see that. I live in a Dutch community that really emphasizes the Sabbath and keeping the Sabbath, and I see people judging each other on what you do or you don't do on Sunday. That's not realizing the gift in a proper way.

Shannon Popkin:

But now I lean kind of more towards the other way. I didn't grow up in a Dutch, you know home or community, and I tend to look at it like, hmm, what can I, you know? How can I make this my day, god's day? Like, how can I, you know, I want to be lazy, I want to watch TV, I want to, I want to use this to feed my own selfish desires. Like what can I get away with? And I get the sense that isn't right either.

Lindsay Schott:

Right, yeah, well, yeah, there's these two expressions of like you have striving to keep a law of rest, which is ironic, yeah, like that doesn't seem right, and then then falling off onto a thoughtfulness that the Bible wouldn't support in us either. You know, a little folding of hands, what's the proverbs? And yet God is asking us to do that, to keep that as an expression of who he is. I think, at least on the one side, if someone's listening and their struggle is to be extremely, we'll say, legalistic but very to the letter about what rest means To me, hebrews four sort of takes some of that out of the way. Because if you look at Hebrews four when it talks about being invited into God's rest, the biggest rest that the author Hebrews is talking about is rest from dead works that cannot earn your place before God or in the kingdom it's not really talking about.

Lindsay Schott:

Are you keeping the Sabbath once a week? He's not arguing for that. He's saying have you entered the rest that is offered by God through the blood and body of Christ, because he has inaugurated a better covenant? That is the rest you need to enter. And if in your heart you wrestle that, because the heart that wants to keep the letter of the law with the Sabbath is not a heart that has rested from dead works to earn their place before God. So good, lindsay, so good.

Lindsay Schott:

So that would, if that's your heart, to keep it right. Remember that we enter the kingdom and we enter rest through the work of Christ, not ours, not ours at all. We're liberated to enjoy. And then, for the heart that wants to use the Sabbath first for your, that's me, by the way give me a bag of Doritos, let's watch some movies. I'm not saying that's all terrible, but that rest is an invitation to fellowship with God and to know him, to know him as our leader, and it's an invitation into intimacy with him to restore our souls right, and I think, unfortunately, and what I do so much, is that my soul needs rest, not just my body.

Lindsay Schott:

I have my soul there's weary and I need to rest. And Netflix is easy. Netflix is so easy, but it's a broken sister right. There's only one source of living water. There is a bone weariness in us that no nap and no Netflix and no amount of hammock sitting is going to solve. And so a genuine, if you want to keep a 24-hour, actual Sabbath, it will get your soul in touch with the rest it actually needs, which is fellowship with God.

Shannon Popkin:

Oh man, that is so convicting to me, because what we see in these verses is that God blessed the seventh day and he sanctified it. So that word sanctified we see that all through the Bible and it means to be set apart. To be set apart to be made holy. So this day, god is giving it to us as a gift, and I am somebody who I might not really want this gift. You know, I just like to work and I'd like to just continue on my Sunday Like I don't. I feel like I don't need rest. I'll just keep going.

Shannon Popkin:

I, you know I said I love the whole Netflix and junk food and that you know, so I'll do both of those. I'll work, you know, and for me, a lot of my Sundays they just look like my neighbor's Sunday, who doesn't follow the Lord. You know, it's a day off of work where I can do what I want. Maybe I, you know, I go to church, but apart from those couple hours, my day looks pretty consistently but I am. So I find what you said so compelling, that God is giving me this set aside day because he wants to replenish my soul.

Shannon Popkin:

He wants for me to find rest in him, not just rest in a superficial way that the world gives. He wants me to find my rest in him. So I want to go back to this idea of I call them the wilder nights, you know. So this book, this book of Genesis, was written for the people whom I call the wilder nights, because they're the people group that God, it's the Hebrew nation, abraham's children, and God has delivered them from Egypt. And here they are because they they didn't do what God said. They didn't enter the rest, they didn't go into the promised land. They were afraid. They said the people are giants, we feel like grasshoppers. So they said, no, we're not going in. And God left them in the wilderness for 40 years. So here they are. So that's why I call them the wilder nights, and tradition says that this is the time and the place that Moses is writing this book of Genesis for them.

Shannon Popkin:

And so it we always say, when we're looking at interpreting scripture, if it didn't mean something to them, the original, the original audience, it shouldn't mean something to us.

Lindsay Schott:

Right.

Shannon Popkin:

So we have to look at. We always have to start with their lens. So here they are. I love you set it up earlier. They are this group where they they've been led by Pharaoh, who would work them to death, and here God is setting them apart and saying here we're going to reset, we're going to build a community that represents my kingdom, god's kingdom. They're in, you know, they're going to be entering this promised land and they're going to get ready for that by setting aside a Sabbath day where they're not going to work.

Shannon Popkin:

I read somewhere, lindsay, that I think it was in Europe, somewhere they tried to go to a nine day work week to increase productivity or maybe it was a 10 day work week and what they found is no productivity way decreased when they added more days to the work week. Our bodies were like this whole seven day pattern six days of work, one day of rest. This was God's idea and the idea is, you know, god's going to take care of them If they take it. He wants for them to have a day off and he wants them, in a sense, to trust him with that day off that they don't have to keep laboring.

Shannon Popkin:

And also there's the thing with the manna right God's providing their food. Right he's providing it every day day after day after day, but on the Sabbath they're not supposed to. They're supposed to take a double portion on the sixth day, and so that they're supposed to rest. And what happened? Do you remember the story? What happened when people tried to gather more? Or didn't you know?

Lindsay Schott:

They did what I would do. You either gather too much more than what you're told and it went bad, or they were like I'll get it tomorrow, and they woke up on this day and it was not there.

Shannon Popkin:

And they were hungry that day, and so, yeah, so God was setting up a system where he's inviting them to trust him, even for their food, right, he's inviting, he's like I'll take care of you, I'll provide for you this day off, this is a gift to you. And they also had certain I think it was every 70 years they would. Any debts were canceled, and it's basically like you know, I'm going to be generous to you, I'm going to take care of, I'm going to take good care of you, and you can be generous to others, I'm going to take care of it. Right, you don't have to hold each, you know, you can just open your hands and give to others, knowing that I'm a generous God and you can rest in me.

Lindsay Schott:

Yeah, yeah, the rest of God is such a one. It's like I have two thoughts and like one, as you see it, like you're saying, like even even though the original design of what happened in Eden is still broken, there's still these hints of it that come up in our lives. So that's like gosh, god, didn't you do a 10 hour? You attend a work week and no one can do it. All our productivity dies. And then, even with COVID, I mean, people were marking, they were like the, the water is clear. And it was like, because all these things shut down, and just the, just remarking, like every seven years and every 70 years, fields were supposed to go follow, rest the land, the land itself needs to rest. God cares so much for His creation. Even the land rest.

Lindsay Schott:

And then, in COVID, when everything rested, the remark was like isn't that amazing? Maybe we should do this more often. It's like maybe we should do it every seven years, you know. So like you see God's fundamental creation, with rest included, even though it's broken and still a tainted shadow, we're seeing it. We saw it like in the benefit of rest and it's incredible.

Lindsay Schott:

And it's incredible that for the wilderness, like you said, that rest is an expression of who they are and how they stand out from other nations that demonstrates, like that they understand that their provision does not come by the sweat of their brow, it comes from a good God and that every week God wants them to realize that. And then they are reminded, and we are reminded, that our provision, our success or whatever it is we're going for, does not come by the sweat of our brow but by the graciousness of God, and it is an expression of trust. If we find in ourselves a unwillingness to rest or bucking against rest, it means we're bucking against God and His Godness, because he created us for rest, to need rest and to rest with Him. And when I refuse rest and when I don't want to have any limitations of needing rest, it means that I'm trying to be like God, who doesn't need rest. I'm trying to be unlimited, I'm trying to be infinite and I am not. And if I cannot rest, it means I'm probably trying to be God.

Shannon Popkin:

I'm trying to get something by working harder and by the sweat of my brow, and I am outside the bounds of how he made me as his created preacher, yeah, and I'm probably not following him as my leader either, right, if he's a good leader and if he's modeling this and he's given me this gift and he's set this apart for me, well then, who am I following? Right, if I'm bucking this system and saying, no, I don't need rest, I don't need every seven days off or I don't need to sleep every day, right? So who am I listening to? You were mentioning that beforehand. I was like, oh, that is very convicting, like, who is my leader then? Yeah, at that point.

Shannon Popkin:

So, Lindsay, one of the things that we're asking in this season is what are the false narratives? Because here's our, like you mentioned, jen Wilkins says that Genesis is the seedbed for the whole Bible, and so we're looking at, like, how this is our origin story, this is how God set up our existence, everything. We can kind of look back to the roots in Genesis and understand his good intentions for the world, but our world has rejected God and revolted against him, and so we see all of these false narratives that are fighting against God's good intentions. Our enemy has designed a plan to, like you said, buck the system and go against God's good intentions. So, in the world, what false narratives does this idea of a Sabbath, a set aside day to make God holy? What false narratives does this correct for us?

Lindsay Schott:

It definitely. It definitely corrects what you see up there as hustle, but even as an Amnus hustle culture, it's go get it, go build your empire, go hustle, work hard, do more, work harder. It doesn't always sound like that, it sounds more glamorous.

Lindsay Schott:

You know, it's hustle, it's build your empire, it's get your brand going. It's all of that. And it puts it on your shoulders to make a name for yourself, to honestly outlive what you can actually outlive, To put a name out, to put a brand out, to put yourself out, to be an influencer, to do all these things, and that that's actually what's going to make you happy, fulfilled, significant and whatever other word you want to put in there. But it's going to be up to you, and only you, to make it happen.

Shannon Popkin:

Oh boy, girl, yeah, and doing what I do as an author and speaker. I mean, I'm on social media for the purpose, like I wrote a book called Influence, building a Platform that Elevates Jesus, not Me, and that's my goal. I want to elevate Jesus everywhere. But I tell you left and right, I turned back to you, got to hustle, you know, like that's the world's message to me, and I believe that there are times that and then I fall back into the trap.

Shannon Popkin:

You know like work until 930 last night, you know that's me doing the whole hustle thing and falling back believing that lie. Have you ever struggled with this in your life too, lindsay?

Lindsay Schott:

Oh, have I struggled. I could wear the t-shirt for you. Yeah, I mean I have had you know, anytime we're in and out of struggling things.

Lindsay Schott:

But distinctly, I remember in the fall of 2019, I worked at our church and I loved it. I loved it. I loved it so that, like you, you're saying the work that I was doing I loved, and not even my, my bosses, weren't even the boys saying, lindsay, you need to do more. But what I found in the fall of 2019 was I found myself working a lot. I found myself feeling more anxious than ever. I am usually a napper. I love naps. I've napped my whole life. I couldn't nap anymore. I had trouble sleeping because what was happening is, as I tried to go to sleep, there was still internally, biologically, neurologically, something. Still, there was a wheel still spinning, and so it was really that fall that I'm starting to see these outer symptoms of I'm not sleeping well, I'm not present. Even when I'm present with my own friends and family, it's like I'm there, but I'm like half there. In my times, in the word, I was like same thing. I would be trying to focus on the word and be present with God, and I could not. I would show up and it was still like I was half there, and so it was then that I realized I was like I have just an engine in me that says you're not doing enough, you're not doing enough, you're not doing enough, you're not doing enough. And it in effect, at every area of my life my motherhood, being a wife, being a friend, doing ministry, other things that I do it was always I'm not doing enough, I'm not doing enough and I need to do more. And yet I always felt like I was a what is it? A dollar, late in an hour, short, whatever that thing and it's. I just felt like this cannot be living, this cannot be right, like I can't keep doing this.

Lindsay Schott:

And so, through several different events and something that God's, even now still kind of getting to the root of and taking out, two things became obvious, and they were two sides of the same coin. One I love getting to do what I do. I love teaching, I watercolors, I love watercolor, I love doing all those things. But I also have an ambition for those things. I also have an ambition that's swirled in there, that is, I want people to know me for those things and I want to be good at those things and I want people to think of me and say Lindsay, so great at that.

Lindsay Schott:

And what happens with that ambition, with that desire for my fame in a small way, my glory, my success in that is, it instantly becomes a ruthless taskmaster, who then looks back at me and says you're not doing enough. Same thing, and so what has become more clear to me is that God is a good leader, is not looking at me saying, lindsay, you're not doing enough. He is saying I'm inviting you to rest, but you are going to have to let all the other stuff go. Because even even if I did it let's say I did all the Instagram posts that I should be doing to have a successful amount of influence, which I totally don't and let's say I achieved all those things that I think are going to make me feel satisfied, one. The Bible would probably tell me you'll get to the top of that mountain and find out nothing's there. You won't. You might get to the top, you might be super successful. It will still not produce for you the rest in your soul that you need. And so then the alternative is come to God and let go of all of that, because all of those things just become ruthless taskmasters anyway, because they're not good leaders, they're not God.

Lindsay Schott:

But coming to God and letting him so graciously say take all that off, you don't need that, and just take all my yoke in my burden, do the things I'm telling you to do and walk with me. And I'm inviting you to rest. And that's still happening for me. I'm still in the midst of that voice in my head, which is amazing, being dismantled. I mean truly like my life is changing right now. It's amazing Like I am more present in this moment with my kids. I am more okay with interruptions, I am finding myself more secure in just being a person who's loved by God and I live as a witness to whoever's in front of me and I don't need to worry about my influence on social media and if I don't post enough, I don't post enough, I just don't and not bucking up against as a creature. God has called me to rest as a believer. He's invited me graciously into enjoying him with rest and to take that option, and it's liberating me and it's making me enjoy people, my family, my life way differently.

Shannon Popkin:

That's so good. I'm so grateful to hear that this transformation is happening in you.

Lindsay Schott:

And I mean.

Shannon Popkin:

I'm still a work in progress too. I think we wrote the book Influence in. Was it 2019? Same year that you were struggling too right.

Lindsay Schott:

And then my Right before we were all about to enter a pandemic.

Shannon Popkin:

Exactly yes. And then my most recent book, Comparison Girl, is all about that message you have to get ahead, you have to measure up, you have to, and all of those voices and how I started that book is and this was really for myself is like wait, where am I getting that message? Yeah, where am I receiving that message that you have to put yourself out there, you have to get ahead, you have to drive yourself, because I've never heard Jesus say anything remotely like that In my Bible. His words are in red and if I just skim through, he never says. He never says you have to get ahead and he never says you're not enough. He never invites me to rise, to elevate myself and he never shames me because I haven't.

Shannon Popkin:

This kingdom is a kingdom that invites us to rest in God and when that is our purpose and when that's our fulfillment this you know, this kingdom that we're all invited to, well then we can just flourish and go ahead and use our gifts, because we do all have gifts. So the message is not stop working. The message is just you know your purpose and your leader is different. You know you have this leader, jesus. Jesus did not come into our world bent on proving that he was the greatest, even though he was right. But he was humble. He just lived life to serve others. He used his gifts and abilities to lift others up, not himself up. And when we follow him we do find rest.

Lindsay Schott:

So, yeah, embracing rest allows us to work rightly, because before, if we're toiling in our whatever, our work is even our spiritual giftings and this is major for anyone who's a believer and working in the church because this all gets availed in like Jesus and ministry language and that somehow gives you permission to do the same exact thing to run your life, rag it, but in the name of Jesus.

Lindsay Schott:

It's like that's not right, that's not okay.

Lindsay Schott:

But if you embrace this as God inviting you to rest, then you can actually work, because the gifts that you're using, the ministry, you're doing whatever does not need to produce gain for you in your identity, in your significance, in your legacy. It doesn't need to do any of that for you. And so now you're liberated and you can actually serve, now you can actually give yourself because you don't need to take from it. Now you're liberated to really give your gift as a gift to another, give what you have in service to the church, to your community, because you don't need to get from it, because you can't have both. I can't use what I love in Bible teaching to get my identity and my platform and also say I'm serving the church, I'm giving my life for people. But if I embrace rest and Jesus is my identity, he is my rest and he's liberating me, then I can actually use my gifts rightly to serve another and not myself, I feel like I need to go listen to what you just said about five times which I'm glad.

Shannon Popkin:

I often say things that I need to just say to myself. But yeah, I'm glad that we have them recorded here. So, lindsay, I know you basically just said what I'm going to ask you, but maybe in a really succinct way, talk to the woman who has just bought into the idea of hustle. In this world system of you have to get ahead, you have to measure up. What would it look like to live like? It's true that our God rested on the seventh day.

Lindsay Schott:

The first thing I would say if you are running yourself ragged, if you are feeling you are hustling and never coming up with enough, try and be in the quiet, even though it's hard, and ask yourself why are you doing it? Why is it for someone, Is it for you? And just keep asking yourself why, until you get heavily to a rock bottom. This is why I'm doing it, because something is driving you. But if it's running you ragged and you cannot rest, your life cannot rest. I will at least give you a hint now it's not God who's doing that to you. Something else and to at least ask yourself why and we all have a different, why it might look different but ask why are you doing this and who is it for? And that would be the first thing and at least hold out hope and just to maybe confirm your suspicions. No, it does not have to be this way. You don't have to live this way. You really don't, and God really is offering a better alternative and that's possible for you.

Shannon Popkin:

That's so good. So living like it's true is rejecting the idea that I have to do more, that I have to live this ragged life, running myself like that is not true. That is not truth, and so it's not the leadership of our God? Lindsay, thank you so much for all of the wisdom that you have shared so fun.

Shannon Popkin:

I'm so excited that God is transforming both of us. I would love for our listeners to look back on this conversation and look at it as you know what God was inviting me to receive a gift, a gift of rest. Wouldn't that be great? Yeah, that would love that.

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